The Video that spurred the first day of two-day debate:
The DEBATE
Frank Tietie: Let me begin by further asking whether or not Africa is poor?
I believe indeed that Africa hosts the most valuable resources in the world yet its citizens have the poorest living standards in the world….
Why are most African countries poor?
Why are african countries poor despite having natural resources like gold and diamond in plenty?
Because a variety of factors prevent the establishment of a stable government that is capable of taking a country from low to high economic functioning.
The job of staying in power is their main work usually as they also do not know the clear way to make the economic development of their countries even if they have this as a priority in their administration.
I believe the advice and aid money given to African governments is haphazard, uncoordinated and often counterproductive.
My theory based on work i do here in Rwanda is that the lack of an effective banking relationship to government policy means there isn’t enough money supply to make a modern economy work.
The solution is to effectively title property – and then ensure good banking practices – to make finance costs lower.
99% of property in Africa is full equity ownership!
it has no mortgage or loan or security against it –
if you want to build a business or build a house you need finance or you are limited to cash – which reduces the economic activity too much to function
In modern economies credit is the main method of economic growth and enables business which enables tax which enables good government and financial responsibility.
Its a chain reaction.
From my work in Rwanda and other African countries the fact is that at 18% finance interest eate plus the huge hassle to secure a loan means the economy can’t function despite huge demand. 18% interest rate is impossible to pay back.
I know this because the banks hold security against properties but many are overvalued above the loan – so the bank will lose money if the borrower cannot pay and the property is foreclosed. This is a huge problem and undermines the entire financial system in the country.
I also run the property valuers software registry so I can see where some valuers are clearly way off true value – you can guess what might be influencing these wild valuations given.
So the chain of due diligence must be better to ensure risk and finance is aligned corrctly.
If this can work then they have alot of secureable property collateral to use as the basis for their own development by local people seeking their own improvement.
In western economies we cannot function without access to CAPITAL – yet we expect Africa to do so from a far lower capacity without this key function?????
With respect that is what i am fixing in my own work and frankly the results so far have shown it to be true – it can work with digital systems.
FYI some of my works here www.informatics.africa
Many reasons, but one reason is that the boundary lines were drawn by European powers who were not trying very hard to create nations that would be unified and stable. So quite a lot of African governments are trying to boost one segment of the population or another, usually by taking from everyone else, instead of boosting the country as a whole, usually by education and technology. Or they’re fighting civil wars.
An interesting exception is Botswana, which came into existence as the and was peopled by the Tswana, who had (I think) a sense of identity that led to a real, cohesive nation. Botswana has grown (relatively) prosperous
Frank Tietie: By the way, why would only leaders be responsible for the continued poverty of Africa. Does the blackman have a special problem?
Ekairia Ehis St Dennis: Africa is poor because her leaders are greedy. That’s not entirely true.
Africa is poor because Africa is not independent.
African countries may have independence but are they truly independent? I believe there external forces that wants Africa to remain poor. Because poorer the Africa is , the richer their region.
Until our leaders know the true meaning of independence, Africa will remain poor.
True independence is when we allow Africa to define how she wants to grow and at what pace. Rwanda and Libya are examples of my argument.
Frank Tietie: Do you mean Africa is not independent and our leaders are still puppets of either France, Britain, Germany, Portugal, Italy etc? Methinks that we are naturally selfish and wicked . Permit my extremities but let’s examine our cultures and traditions.
[EKAIRIA EHIS ST DENNIS: I do not believe Blackman have special problem, I donor agree. Problem maybe. Despite what many people may opine, there are lots brilliant black brothers and sisters with good moral ethics doing great in business. It’s a matter of transferring same technique into governance and government. But those that are in government now, are making it practically impossible to share the ballot box with those will make the difference. Believe it or not, the government of today are been helped by external forces to make sure Africa remain poor.
Look at Rwanda, when they had help from France, the people could not live among themselves. Today, No one can tell where Rwanda is going because they decided to be truly independent.
Frank Tietie : Thank you St Dennis. So much has been said about the Rwandan turn around. I will take time to read it up.
Are you saying Paul Kigame, a former warlord didn’t receive any external help? How come he as a minority Tutsi gain power, changed the Lingua Franca to English and we still think he acted independently?
By Ademola Babatunde Abidemi Samuel, National Chairman Nigeria Community Movement Party. NCMP.
Africa is not poor, Africa is well structured, balanced with a lot of resources, totally favoured with most beautiful outlook, blessed with population of able men and women, infants and children, enriched with personalities of noble characters, favoured with enviable gifts and talents .
On the other hand, Africans are POOR, for many reasons to mention few amongst many: 1. Poor forms of leadership 2. Poor in education 3 poor in education 4. Poor in education, 5. poor in education, 6. poor in education, 7. Poor in all forms or class of education that can or will or may or supposed to make a nation great. 8. Poor in making use of human resources 9. Poorer in sincere leadership and followership, very rich in wickedness, impatience, greed, hatred for one another, very wealthy in no value for humanity, engrossed with selfishness, very poor in sustainable policies and plans that can show adequate projections for absolute progressive development that will surpass the world standard.
Africa is a very rich and wealthy continent encumbered with population of people who do not see reason to make her a greater place amongst other continents of the world . Africa remains very rich and wealthy, that is why the sustainability of Africa as a continent is very important to other countries of the world or continent who tap from the wealth in Africa on a daily basis.
Ask, China, UK, America, Germany, etc. They will never tell you that Africa is poor, they know what they make from Africa on a daily basis that sustains their own economy, all these are taken from leaders who care only about their families and pockets enriching themselves from the same wealth of Africa.
If you ask Dangote, Bill Gates, Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, they will tell you Africa is very rich In everything but very poor in all that man needs to make for a continent to be great. A continent that is led by leadership without vision, political power hijackers, selfish leaders, leaders who place no value on humanity, can never enjoy the richness of such nation of continent.
Africa is not poor,; it is a land space well planned and blessed by God for the existence of humanity. What you make of her determines who you are. When you wake up everyday, tell yourself you are a poor African who lives in a rich Africa and cannot tap from the riches and greatness of the land.
This will give us very big reasons to make an effective change in the way we continue to project our continent.
Frank Tietie: This is fantastically expressive. Thank you so much Babs. You have captured much of the state of affairs but we must require solutions.
What about the large amount of aid that is poured into Africa yearly? We know such aid amount is incomparable with what they take away from Africa but Africa receives the most amount of aid in the world that is supposed to improve the living conditions. The question remains why is Africa poor. Is it lack of education that aid money doesn’t also work?
Ademola Babatunde Abidemi Samuel: Rwandan told themselves they don’t want to continue to put their rich home country in the hand of mediocres and hypocrites who claim to love them but keep keeping them in perpetual darkness.
Every Rwandan today is responsible for the riches, wealth, future and vision of the country. Until Africans decide to take responsibility and be actively responsible for every shame we bring or have brought on ourselves, we must not complain about leadership anymore, we must be ready to pay a price for good leadership, we must be ready, all of us, must be ready to lead alright.
Just checking, why are we afraid to lead the most strong and lasting and effective protest, all over the country with the mind never to compromise? Just for the sake of the generations to come.
Frank Tietie: Powerful!! Babs, where have you been?
I like the fact that we must individually take responsibility.
Men! Where do we start in a place like Nigeria?
Babatunde: I am ready. Who will join for posterity sake and not self? Same question that faced us before a 22yrs lady took the step in. Algeria
Ehis: Kagame obviously had help. You know that saying when a thief is helping you to look for your missing item, you will never find it.
I believe Rwanda themselves decided that they can be their own brothers keeper. And they are lucky to have Kagame who understands that only Rwandans can save Rwanda.
Tietie: Let’s continue the conscientization. These things happen spontaneously when the time is ripe.
I believe that when Babs referred to lack of education as one of the bane of Africa, he refers to a people who have lacked the ability to think and act independently based on responses in their environment.
Africans are yet to know they are in chains and are not yet even angry enough to protest. Algeria may not necessarily be Africa, you know. Black Africa has a much bigger problem.
Tietie: Somebody should take another look at Senator Misau’s comments posted in a video here in this platform, this morning and you know it is matter of time. If things don’t change….
Imagine a policeman planning to join Boko Haram in protest. Somebody said “…leave that thing!”
Tietie: I just recently returned from a 4-European Nations tour and I almost gave up, may be I gave up that we will ever catch up with the rest of the world.
Frank Tietie: Let me begin by further asking whether or not Africa is poor?
I believe indeed that Africa hosts the most valuable resources in the world yet its citizens have the poorest living standards in the world….
Why are most African countries poor?
Why are african countries poor despite having natural resources like gold and diamond in plenty?
Because a variety of factors prevent the establishment of a stable government that is capable of taking a country from low to high economic functioning.
The job of staying in power is their main work usually as they also do not know the clear way to make the economic development of their countries even if they have this as a priority in their administration.
I believe the advice and aid money given to African governments is haphazard, uncoordinated and often counterproductive.
My theory based on work i do here in Rwanda is that the lack of an effective banking relationship to government policy means there isn’t enough money supply to make a modern economy work.
The solution is to effectively title property – and then ensure good banking practices – to make finance costs lower.
99% of property in Africa is full equity ownership!
it has no mortgage or loan or security against it –
if you want to build a business or build a house you need finance or you are limited to cash – which reduces the economic activity too much to function
In modern economies credit is the main method of economic growth and enables business which enables tax which enables good government and financial responsibility.
Its a chain reaction.
From my work in Rwanda and other African countries the fact is that at 18% finance interest eate plus the huge hassle to secure a loan means the economy can’t function despite huge demand. 18% interest rate is impossible to pay back.
I know this because the banks hold security against properties but many are overvalued above the loan – so the bank will lose money if the borrower cannot pay and the property is foreclosed. This is a huge problem and undermines the entire financial system in the country.
I also run the property valuers software registry so I can see where some valuers are clearly way off true value – you can guess what might be influencing these wild valuations given.
So the chain of due diligence must be better to ensure risk and finance is aligned corrctly.
If this can work then they have alot of secureable property collateral to use as the basis for their own development by local people seeking their own improvement.
In western economies we cannot function without access to CAPITAL – yet we expect Africa to do so from a far lower capacity without this key function?????
With respect that is what i am fixing in my own work and frankly the results so far have shown it to be true – it can work with digital systems.
FYI some of my works here www.informatics.africa
Many reasons, but one reason is that the boundary lines were drawn by European powers who were not trying very hard to create nations that would be unified and stable. So quite a lot of African governments are trying to boost one segment of the population or another, usually by taking from everyone else, instead of boosting the country as a whole, usually by education and technology. Or they’re fighting civil wars.
An interesting exception is Botswana, which came into existence as the and was peopled by the Tswana, who had (I think) a sense of identity that led to a real, cohesive nation. Botswana has grown (relatively) prosperous
Frank Tietie: By the way, why would only leaders be responsible for the continued poverty of Africa. Does the blackman have a special problem?
Ekairia Ehis St Dennis: Africa is poor because her leaders are greedy. That’s not entirely true.
Africa is poor because Africa is not independent.
African countries may have independence but are they truly independent? I believe there external forces that wants Africa to remain poor. Because poorer the Africa is , the richer their region.
Until our leaders know the true meaning of independence, Africa will remain poor.
True independence is when we allow Africa to define how she wants to grow and at what pace. Rwanda and Libya are examples of my argument.
Frank Tietie: Do you mean Africa is not independent and our leaders are still puppets of either France, Britain, Germany, Portugal, Italy etc? Methinks that we are naturally selfish and wicked . Permit my extremities but let’s examine our cultures and traditions.
[EKAIRIA EHIS ST DENNIS: I do not believe Blackman have special problem, I donor agree. Problem maybe. Despite what many people may opine, there are lots brilliant black brothers and sisters with good moral ethics doing great in business. It’s a matter of transferring same technique into governance and government. But those that are in government now, are making it practically impossible to share the ballot box with those will make the difference. Believe it or not, the government of today are been helped by external forces to make sure Africa remain poor.
Look at Rwanda, when they had help from France, the people could not live among themselves. Today, No one can tell where Rwanda is going because they decided to be truly independent.
Frank Tietie : Thank you St Dennis. So much has been said about the Rwandan turn around. I will take time to read it up.
Are you saying Paul Kigame, a former warlord didn’t receive any external help? How come he as a minority Tutsi gain power, changed the Lingua Franca to English and we still think he acted independently?
By Ademola Babatunde Abidemi Samuel, National Chairman Nigeria Community Movement Party. NCMP.
Africa is not poor, Africa is well structured, balanced with a lot of resources, totally favoured with most beautiful outlook, blessed with population of able men and women, infants and children, enriched with personalities of noble characters, favoured with enviable gifts and talents .
On the other hand, Africans are POOR, for many reasons to mention few amongst many: 1. Poor forms of leadership 2. Poor in education 3 poor in education 4. Poor in education, 5. poor in education, 6. poor in education, 7. Poor in all forms or class of education that can or will or may or supposed to make a nation great. 8. Poor in making use of human resources 9. Poorer in sincere leadership and followership, very rich in wickedness, impatience, greed, hatred for one another, very wealthy in no value for humanity, engrossed with selfishness, very poor in sustainable policies and plans that can show adequate projections for absolute progressive development that will surpass the world standard.
Africa is a very rich and wealthy continent encumbered with population of people who do not see reason to make her a greater place amongst other continents of the world . Africa remains very rich and wealthy, that is why the sustainability of Africa as a continent is very important to other countries of the world or continent who tap from the wealth in Africa on a daily basis.
Ask, China, UK, America, Germany, etc. They will never tell you that Africa is poor, they know what they make from Africa on a daily basis that sustains their own economy, all these are taken from leaders who care only about their families and pockets enriching themselves from the same wealth of Africa.
If you ask Dangote, Bill Gates, Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, they will tell you Africa is very rich In everything but very poor in all that man needs to make for a continent to be great. A continent that is led by leadership without vision, political power hijackers, selfish leaders, leaders who place no value on humanity, can never enjoy the richness of such nation of continent.
Africa is not poor,; it is a land space well planned and blessed by God for the existence of humanity. What you make of her determines who you are. When you wake up everyday, tell yourself you are a poor African who lives in a rich Africa and cannot tap from the riches and greatness of the land.
This will give us very big reasons to make an effective change in the way we continue to project our continent.
Frank Tietie: This is fantastically expressive. Thank you so much Babs. You have captured much of the state of affairs but we must require solutions.
What about the large amount of aid that is poured into Africa yearly? We know such aid amount is incomparable with what they take away from Africa but Africa receives the most amount of aid in the world that is supposed to improve the living conditions. The question remains why is Africa poor. Is it lack of education that aid money doesn’t also work?
Ademola Babatunde Abidemi Samuel: Rwandan told themselves they don’t want to continue to put their rich home country in the hand of mediocres and hypocrites who claim to love them but keep keeping them in perpetual darkness.
Every Rwandan today is responsible for the riches, wealth, future and vision of the country. Until Africans decide to take responsibility and be actively responsible for every shame we bring or have brought on ourselves, we must not complain about leadership anymore, we must be ready to pay a price for good leadership, we must be ready, all of us, must be ready to lead alright.
Just checking, why are we afraid to lead the most strong and lasting and effective protest, all over the country with the mind never to compromise? Just for the sake of the generations to come.
Frank Tietie: Powerful!! Babs, where have you been?
I like the fact that we must individually take responsibility.
Men! Where do we start in a place like Nigeria?
Babatunde: I am ready. Who will join for posterity sake and not self? Same question that faced us before a 22yrs lady took the step in. Algeria
Ehis: Kagame obviously had help. You know that saying when a thief is helping you to look for your missing item, you will never find it.
I believe Rwanda themselves decided that they can be their own brothers keeper. And they are lucky to have Kagame who understands that only Rwandans can save Rwanda.
Tietie: Let’s continue the conscientization. These things happen spontaneously when the time is ripe.
I believe that when Babs referred to lack of education as one of the bane of Africa, he refers to a people who have lacked the ability to think and act independently based on responses in their environment.
Africans are yet to know they are in chains and are not yet even angry enough to protest. Algeria may not necessarily be Africa, you know. Black Africa has a much bigger problem.
Tietie: Somebody should take another look at Senator Misau’s comments posted in a video here in this platform, this morning and you know it is matter of time. If things don’t change….
Imagine a policeman planning to join Boko Haram in protest. Somebody said “…leave that thing!”
(Please note video is from July, 2018)
Tietie: I just recently returned from a 4-European Nations tour and I almost gave up, may be I gave up that we will ever catch up with the rest of the world.
Ahmed Tijani: Can’t there be a United States of Africa?
If no, why?
If yes, How?
Harold Idemudia: Is it not obvious that the minds of the averaged African is colonized? Little can a slave think of himself or herself of value.
Africans have taken themselves as worthless, they have eroded all values and self-worth as a result of social colonialism.
Though we fought for independence yet made ourselves our own slaves by being dependent on everything foreign, we can’t even think except IMF or world power breathe.
We voted the educated who were meant to enlighten us but we became more illiterate than literate.
We lost the essence of a people in a community where trust, good hands and loyal men leads, and allowed greed for power and national dominance to divide us. We began to celebrate highest grabbers and show off masters until our society became a stench of rotten eggs with armories and thugs. Men with wisdom and insight dare not raise a head as death awaits and case of fraud trails.
Our society seems cursed and there is one cure: a revolution. Either it’s of blood or not, I can’t tell but a drastic change where all black must stand to oppose wrongs and demand rights then will Africa be free.
Babatunde: I will join, my wife will join, if the law permits my kids are trained to know that they must stand up to make a different cause for their generation. They are learning very fast about what to do to stand up for a nation like ours where nothing shows that their future is secured and assured
Ehis: It’s hard to react to this video (of Senator Misau above) without taking it personal with the government of the day.
Nigerian leaders do not know that the very first responsibility of the government is protection of the citizens. You have to protect the people first before you talk of building hospitals, building roads, electricity and any other social amenities.
But Nigerian leaders thinks governance is all about managing NNPC’s resources.
Babatunde: I have been around working seriously, for more than 9years now I engaged a good number of Nigerians who believe so much in the emergence of a new system that will bring about a New Nigeria.
Idemudia: African is the richest continent. African isn’t poor but lack good managers.
Babatunde: To discuss Africa as a poor continent, there are lots of factors we must consider, these factors are very common to almost all the nations of Africa. 1. The politics, policies and polity of the United nations 2. The hypocrisy of the developed countries 3. The Deliberate Agenda of the colonial masters, 4. The policies of the world so called financial agents 5. Internal factors: i. Politics before Policy in African leadership mentality. ii. Lack of focus on who we are and what we truly need and want as Africans iii. The first problem of Africa is education and the last problem is also education and the solutions to all the problems is also education. All the things we lack is because we lack leaders who are well informed and educated enough to build the desired future for our nation.
Ehis: And our expectations from the government have been so reduced that a governor that pays salaries as and when is considered as a working governor. We lack accountability.
Talk of extra judicial killings going now. If these trigger-happy police are publicly tried, their pensions paid to the families of the victims, they will learn.
Austin Aigbe: I maintain, Africa isn’t poor.
Babatunde: On education: the normal education: as per getting primary, secondary and tertiary education is very poor. But the major education I will like to dwell on is common education for all, for instance, knowing your right as Africans in your various country, establishing collective structures to get leadership and institutions to respect the right of citizens,
Tietie: Aigbe Austin maintains that Africa is not poor. Why then so much suffering and poor living standards?
Babatunde: Knowing your responsibilities as citizens of African and citizens of your various countries within the continent and been consistently responsible to your responsibilities as Citizens.
Tietie: Aigbe and Babs are the lead discussants.
They are yet to comment on the reason why Africa is the largest recipient of aid in the world.
Aigbe: Aid is making Africa poor.
In the book “Dead Aid” by Demisa Moyo. She focusses on how is used to weaken Africa’s development.
Paul Collier also argues that Africa is the bottom billion. In his 2007 book, he argued that Africa is majorly resources trap.
Idemudia: ? not far from the truth.
African leaders pride in citizen’s penury. “my people are senseless, my people are in discipline… ” Fela Anikulapo-Kuti
Tietie: Dead Aid, should be a must read.
Aigbe, it a weekend long discussion/debate. We can take our time to post, rest and repost. Do not hesitate to send online resources.
I downloaded extracts of Dead Aid when you first referred to it. I shall have to share
Ehis: Actually, Fela was quoting Buhari.
Aigbe: Africa is the fastest billion argued Economist Robortson.
Tietie: “I never hear that before O
Make government talk O”
And Fela the sage asked the same question of tonight..
” Why black man dey suffer today… Why black man nor get money today….”
https://www.studocu.com/en/document/seoul-national-university/international-cooperation/summaries/the-bottom-billion-summary/2855187/view
https://www.academia.edu/7775590/CONFLICT_AND_POVERTY_IN_AFRICA_THE_EFFECT_OF_NATURAL_RESOURCE_AND_LEADERSHIP
Tietie: Enough to digest before our next engagement tomorrow evening Beginning from 8pm
We wind down by 11pm
Babatunde: I am trying to crash the data we gathered and the truth about the Funding/Aid given to Africa. The fact is when you compare the actual motives and the essence of the so-called aid, you will find out that the aid and funding has done more harm than good to our development capacity and our mental reawakening as our leaders are dead to loans, funding and aids. Our leaders are very lazy, they now see the funding and loan availability as the best means to sustain the growth of Africa.
Babatunde: The level of awareness of Africans about what leadership should look like is very poor, very poor. The people are killed mentally and morally from the grassroots In Africa.
Aigbe: I refer our audience to this summary work of Paul Collier to understand the dynamics of resources and conflict trap. The greatest challenge of the continent is poor leadership.
Babatunde: I maintain that until we as Africans stand up to define what we want and what we need our continent to become and projecting into the number of years we are targeting to get there. We cant take ourselves from the poverty of the mind and mental poverty we have been created into.
Idemudia: Other African leaders past and present are no different from Buhari. After all some swore to die on the sit even if crippled or sick.
We’ve been here a while seeing the shame African leaders have brought on African countries.
Why are the led gullible? Why are the led beggars? Why are the African citizen’s inspite of education so weak to stand for their rights? Why do we fear death and choose to seek asylum in foreign lands?
Why are we talkers and not doers?
Why is Africa poor?
The people, the citizens, the populace, the led, the governed, the ruled, the oppressed are the problem of Africa.
The people have failed to make demands for what is right and theirs from their leaders. The people have chosen to eat of the crumbs and live like paupers. The people have thought they do not have a right any more in their fatherland, so they take all the “bullshit” which makes it easier for a police recruit to slap a citizen and go Scott free.
Africans’ greatest problem are it’s citizens.
Hoganoene: Please listen to this lady as her speech may explain some of the reasons why Africa is “poor” today.
+234 803 923 9377: I will avoid placing the blame at the door step of citizens. Though i accept the philosophy that a people get the kind of leadership they deserve. The hopelessness of the citizens make them vulnerable to the citizens politics.